4. They get ridiculed for original thought, good writing
"On MySpace, if you write clearly and compose coherent paragraphs with informed observations on history and current events, 'buddies' will make fun of you,'' Bauerlein says. Wikipedia writing is clean and factual, but colorless and judgment-free. Often the most clever students, with flashes of disorganized brilliance on MySpace, switch to dull Wiki-writing formats for school papers, he says. "If we could combine the style and imagination of MySpace with the content of Wikipedia, we might get good stuff."
(Jeremy, Jon(s) & Parag will love the next reason...)
(Jeremy, Jon(s) & Parag will love the next reason...)
27 comments:
I think this is the first fact from Mark Bauerlein I agree with. If you post a "status" or a "comment" on Facebook with grammar and punctuation, people will make fun of you. For example, if I put my status as "What a fun day laugh out loud! Opposed to "Wat a funn dayy LOL" I'd get teased for using punctuation and spelling.
However, my generation uses good writing and original thought like a switch. When we come to school, we turn that switch on. But outside of school in Text messages, Facebook and Emails. We turn that switch off. We know how to use that switch, we just don't choose to use it for Mark Bauerlein's reason.
this one was a bit harder to think of a response for...
i dont get why this guy's making a big deal about all this. who cares if some loser were to tease you about your writing style?
like eric said, we can always write properly when we want to, and not when we dont want to.
-- i'll add to my comment later.
Um, I have to disagree with Eric some what. I don't think poeple would give a crap if someone used grammar on facebook or not. People use lol and g2g and stuff because it's easier to type than laugh out loud. You see, right were as with lol, I only use 3 letters and no spaces. It's just easier. I mean, if your texting one of your friends, you kinda want to have to type as little as possible. ( or it can be a real thumb work out! lol) I think/know that we can write well but our generation doesn't care about grammar on Facebook or Myspace.
and btw, I don't know any one who would switch to wiki because some one said," haha, you use grammar on Facebook!" Now, if you think about this, who do you think looks like the loser?
I find this reason different than the others. In my own experiences, I have never been made fun of if I use proper grammar when I I.M. someone. Granted, like in Eric's post, I wouldn't say something like "Laugh out loud!" because honestly, it sounds stupid. Sometimes, it depends to who you're talking to. If you are texting someone who actually writes properly, then obviously, they wouldn't laugh at you. But, if you were texting someone who isn't that great at grammar and you're texting with proper English, they might say something like, "What's with the whole grammar thing?" or something of that order. But, they my be saying that because since that person doesn't know grammar too well, he expects the other person not to as well. Maybe that person prefers that people don't excel more than they do.
I disagree with Mark on this one. I try to write as "colorfully" as possible when writing an assignment. I try not to switch to the dull wiki-formats. Me personally, I can barely read wikipedia texts, for it is really boring and long. As for writing on facebook/Myspace, I don't think anyone cares whether you use correct grammar and spelling. Although i wouldn't know, because I am not connected to the social media websites at the moment. I doubt that anyone would tease you for saying something gramatically correct. That is really imature and a waste of time.
I must disagree with the they get ridiculed for good writing, on Facebook (which I don't go on anymore) no one really cares how you spell,if anything it annoys me when people spell with alot of typos than someone who spells normally because it can get really hard to read the badly spelled ones. And for the really small amount of people who do make fun of people for their good grammar and spelling, they should get a life then find something better to do instead of hating on good spelling.
Wikipedia isn't dull!
Well it mostly depends on what you are reading, if it's a bibliography chances are it's boring but other articles are alright. And if you combine dull, clean writing with opinion laced comments from facebook I really don't know what you'll end up with, maybe a paradox tho or maybe just regular writing.
I think if you IM-ing or texting someone who's ignorant enough to comment about proper grammar than you shouldn't be texting or IM-ing with them. Seriously it's not like using apostrophes is uncool or something...
I use proper grammar a lot of the time with the exception of when I use things like LOL, which isn't spelled 'wrong' since it's an acronym, and I have never once been 'teased' or made fun of because it... I'm not A-type about it but I try and make sure I don't make too many mistakes.
I use proper grammar because first of all, that little squiggly red line bothers the crap out of be, secondly, it also bothers so much me when people are too lazy to put a "'" in between n and t, or correct little errors like capitalizing I,(seriously it's not like it's even hard) and lastly because I know that if you keep being lazy and don't use good grammar it's probable that you will continue to not use good grammar and punctuation.
Also, I think that it's easier to make a good impression when people see you are not too lazy to leave thing that should be capitalized un-capitalized. Yeah it might be easier to write LOL, but I truly think that if you do it online your bad habit will carry into school, and then be a bad habit for the rest of your life because your practicing it everyday when you log on to Facebook, when your texting, and instant messaging.
Oops. I meant " ' ".
And um no thanks Mr. Bauerlein, Wikipedia is FANTASTIC for searching everything. I wanted to know when the next episode of Glee was on, so I of course went to Wikipedia. It's ORGANIZED BRILLIANCE. It gives you number of US viewers, ( if it's aired already) the original air date, the author of that episode, the director of that episode, the Title of course, a quick sort of... summary, of what's it about, and the number in series and it's number in season.
Wikipedia has all the facts, without the ad's. You can trust it.
You can find so much information on there it's incredible. You can find the list of every single spell, charm or curse ever used in any Harry Potter book or movie; the description, it's pronunciation, where it was seen/mentioned, and it's etymology. It even says who used it and why. THAT IS BRILLIANT.
Wikipedia isn’t supposed to be colorful! It was made to be an ad- free reliable source of information. Calm down bro.
Okay, so I don't think our "buddies" will make fun of us if we write full sentences on MySpace or Facebook. Why would you be made fun of, because you wrote a complete sentence, that's just lies in my opinion, like where did he get that data from? Besides, I haven't seen other people get teased because of how they wrote.
And okay, so Wikipedia might boring and MySpace is probably a lot more fun and easier to read, but if you're using the information for a project or for school papers, you don't copy everything the website says, you use the information and put your own flare to it, like Mr.Oickle said. And if you do copy all of it, isn’t it plagiarism? So yes, it might be easier to read, but you don’t present the whole text from the website, you use bits and pieces from it. But I think a combination of the two websites would be interesting and it might be helpful to some people to captivate their interest.
Sorry for posting on the day of...
This response for me isn't that long because I really don't have a lot to say.
1. If I write using proper grammar text and information, no one is going to make fun of me. Seriously, why would someone make fun of another person because they are writing properly??? Okay....
2. Wikipedia is a great site but I don't know how you can trust a site with facts that everyone can edit. That's what I don't understand. Half the stuff might not be real.
3. I agree with Bauerlein if we did put both Wiki and MySpace brilliance we would have great stuff, but the reason people don't is because they feel like they have to write the Wiki way. We all have to learn that everyone is different and this generation is completely different from any others, we have to work and learn to our new media ways and learn that there is different ways to accomplish tasks.
We are very smart people, and we have been introduced to all the latest technology and have access to all at the touch of our fingertips. What we have to learn and teachers/past generations, is that it's different form when our teachers/past generations were a kid. We're expected to write like wiki at least we think we are. Everyone has to learn it's a new generation for teaching, academic wise, so we have to change our ways to fit in it. So new generation, new ways.
Ok first of all your friends won't care if you use grammar or not or else why wouldn't they be your friends? No one else will care!! And like Maddy said before, who's the loser now? But when we are IMing someone or texting them we don't want to have to type all the time. We want to get it into short form. So it's a lot easier saying ROTFL than rolling on the floor laughing because it's waaaaaaaayyyy easier. Compare that: 4 letters to 25 letters, which one would you choose? We CAN write well but when we are texting or IMing someone grammar comes second to time? We want to say whatever we want to say the fastest possible so thus we use cut out letters in words and make up our own meanings so we can shorten words.
I disagree with Eric about the "what a fun day" part, and Mark. The reason being is because personally i never seen anyone , let alone me, made fun of someone because of there clear , neat writing, punctuation and etc.
But I agree with Eric when he writes "generation uses good writing and original thought like a switch." I could go on FB and type neatly with nice grammar and spelling but i chose not too because I like using shot forms
instead of writing "Laugh out Loud."
The only thing I agree with Mark is when he says "If we could combine the style and imagination of MySpace with the content of Wikipedia, we might get good stuff."
The reason is because Wikipedia have so much facts and most of them are true facts. But Sophia usually if people edit the facts , Wiki would delete it less than a day most of the time. But I agree with you when you talk about how our generation is completely different from others part. Espiecally when you say
"Everyone has to learn it's a new generation for teaching, academic wise, so we have to change our ways to fit in it. So new generation, new ways."
That makes no sense , I have not seen anyone ever been made fun of because they right clearly. I for a fact right very clearly , Ive never been made fun of. On the other hand original thought had been criticized , but not only on the internet, At schools by teachers and other peers. I do not know how to relate to MySpace since I have never used and never will because theirs another website called Facebook as we all know. Your usually never made fun of when you bring up and history because its stupid , I strongly believe its just plain jealousy. Its great to remember our history and bring your original thought to the table , you shouldn't care if others thinks its stupid , your going to succeed more in life because of your young bright minded ideas. I would just like to add, some people don't type clearly because they thinks its cool , not because they cant. Also slang , such as LOL ... etc is just a very quicker way to communicate. This is the 21st century , get used to it.
@Rachel, colour has "u" in it for us.
I type how I would write because I was a staff on a game server and I chose to use proper spelling and grammar. Now it's a habit. The only thing I don't do on a computer is the indent in the beginning of a paragraph.
Texting isn't suppose to be written clear because it only holds 160 characters per text. You can reach the limit in less then a couple sentences and it would take you twice the amount of time to type and send. (IDK about I.M. though)
~Don't feel like continuing this post due to my finger.
Unlike my other comments, I agree with this statement COMPLETELY. Mark Bauerlien says that people get ridiculed for actually writing grammatically correct paragraphs and he's right; it’s actually happened to me before. One time I was texting someone (there will be no finger pointing) and I had my phone set to "Auto correct" so what I was saying was being corrected. it only took a couple of texts until this person started laughing and when I asked why he said that it looked stupid when I spell checked all of my texts and made them all correct. After I explained to him that it was my phone's auto correct, he simply said "my phone has auto correct too, but I just go back and UN-correct it." of course I found this REALLY weird because he had just ridiculed ME for going back and spell checking it but when, in reality, HE was going over HIS texts and spell checking them to make it sound LIKE HE DIDNT CARE. I was a bit shocked. I’d heard that people were working hard to make it look like they weren't working hard but THIS was just downright obsessive.
So in reality, when people are given things like spell check, they aren't likely to use it because they will be ridiculed. It's not apparent why to me but at least I know for a fact that it exists.
When he says that we just naturally switch to our "Wikipedia" like, way of thinking during assignments, he's also right. We DO get a bit more boring during writing and academic assignments. We do it because that how we were taught to do it and were given good grades and a pat on the back if we did it. (I believe that also, incidentally, why we have so much imagination in our out of school activities.)If we HAD been taught to use imagination in our assignments, we would have, but as of right now, we are just writing to get it done with and go somewhere where we can use our imagination. It’s really very sad because we can't really be reprogrammed can we?
All in all, this is his first statement that I agree with 100%. Usually I’m half and half with what he says but in my opinion he hit the nail on the head with this one.
Responses (I’ll try to be less sarcastic Mr. O.)
I agree with mad die on this one but yet, there IS something I’d like to add on. In the last part, you mentioned that the people who ridicule look like the losers and I agree with that, but who are we kidding? Losers or not, there are a LOT of them and they tend to gang up. I'm not saying to conform to them, that was never my intention, but are it really worth all the hustle just for a bit of pride?
Ok I just read rohini's and she caught something that I didn't quite get to so I want to do a response to that response (a small one granted). So she said that "it all depends who you're talking to"....... YES YES YES! It all depends on who you're talking to. When I had that run-in with the grammar hater, come to think of it, he wasn't really the most grammatically correct guy I’ve ever seen so it all fits in. So it's great if you can talk both proper English and, well, the other English. So spelling is still important; but not essential.
Ok so I’m going to kind of do a "group response" thing. So, I’ve been seeing a lot of posts that say people don’t care if you spell correct at all. I respectfully disagree with that because a lot of you who are saying that, call me a nerd on a daily basis because I USE proper English when I talk to you. I don’t think people always catch themselves when they say it, so it generally goes un-noticed but it ticks me off a bit when you go calling me a nerd for proper English then go and preach on the blog about how nobody does that. I understand that last sentence was a bit derogatory but well, imp a bit ticked off. Oh, and it's not all of you who said "it doesn't happen" that I’m talking about; just some.
Now for tow quick ones. Hilary. This one brought to light a bit about the statement that I missed. He said "buddies". Ya so it's true, if they're your friends, they won't care if you use punctuation or grammar or not. (Unfortunately that can't be said for all of the people I hang out with. you know who you are.) But on the greater side, people usually don’t care about that kind of thing if they're your friend.
Faisa. You said people don’t ridicule you for proper sentences. It’s pretty clear why. People usually only tease people they look down on or feel they're better than. Let’s face it: there are not a lot of people who look down on you. And by "not a lot" I mean none. So they wouldn't really want to tease you about it anyway.
Well, I think I’ve used up more than enough space. Guess I just have a lot to say. Thanks guys.
haha! i knew i wrote things that were a bit too long but this is a bit embarassing. i actually maxed out the space for comments. it turns out, you can only have 4,096 characters in your comment. who knew? im actually kinda sorry about that Mr O. but its not so bad since the second bit is all responses. right?
DANG IT! i had so much to say and i was writting so fast that i forgot a couple words and commas. oops?
I don't want to repeat what everyone has already said, plenty of times. Most people aren't criticized because of their spelling, or their punctuation, et cetera, et cetera.
How about we look at the statementin a different way?
Perhaps Mr. Baurlein has a point, if you think about the big picture here. In many ways, especially at this grade, people who think about their future education , or actually care about their education in general, are frowned upon by their peers. If, in your lifestyle, you don't follow as much sports, computers, etc. and instead care about your future and try your best in school, often people like that are discouraged/excluded by their peers. People who are informed, and care about world politics and care about issues,( not the normal, self centered issues of the typical teen ) are SOMETIMES bullied. I don't think we see this as much in our class, but it is definitely there.I've seen in some classes students being ridiculed because of their "original thought" or opinions, mainly because everyone else was too ignorant to know anything about that issue. The largest issue with that is that it can sometimes affect how students learn, and if they aren;t able to express their thoughts at this age, they won't be able to when they are older, due to lack of confidence and many other things.
Coming to the grammar issue, it's definitely a small problem, because as they say, when you start doing something so often, like spelling incorrectly on MSN, it can sometimes become a habit. But more often then not, MSN spelling isn't much of an issue that we see in school.
Thing is, it is not that people are afraid of being made fun of, it is because they don't know how to spell properly. (And if you are afraid of being made fun of, get over it. Besides if your "friends" are going to make fun of you, they aren't really your friends.)
Mr bauerlein is wrong in this quote. Nobody gets teassed for spelling with good grammar. it is completly untrue this statement. where's the proof? does he get bullied for IMing? the closest to this is for people to think is it is "cool" spell badly. There is not much to say about this quote.
*may. That's what I meant in my post.
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